WTF is this shit?

"Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire" (arch-duke-maxyenko) 02/21/2015 at 19:54 • Filed to: ethics in journalism

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I'm not even going to bother to read this based on how wrong the title is, so please, facebook, stop telling me to.

jkm7680 > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 02/21/2015 at 19:55

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Fuck that, the G3 and G5 and the Montana killed Pontiac.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > jkm7680 02/21/2015 at 19:59

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The Vibe, Aztec, G6, the oil embargo, GM forcing shared engines, the FWD Grand Am, FWD Grand Prix, poor build quality, cheap shit, and more are also all things that killed Pontiac.

Ramblin Rover - The Vivisector of Solihull > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 02/21/2015 at 20:00

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Such wrongness of wrong, they even have wrong in their wrong wrongness wrongly.

jkm7680 > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 02/21/2015 at 20:25

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Oh god, forgot about the Vibrator for a second.

TFen > jkm7680 02/21/2015 at 20:38

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You're right about the G5 and G3, but the Montana was a huge success for Pontiac in the early-mid 2000's.

jkm7680 > TFen 02/21/2015 at 20:39

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...

TFen > jkm7680 02/21/2015 at 20:47

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Your point?

jkm7680 > TFen 02/21/2015 at 20:47

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The one pictured was complete and utter sheeeit.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > jkm7680 02/21/2015 at 20:52

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Hey, the Vibe isn't that bad. Unlike the rest of the GM line up at that time, it doesn't break in the first 50k miles.

TFen > jkm7680 02/21/2015 at 20:52

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Yup. However, they still sold over 50,000 of them in North America that year.

I'd chalk that up as a success.

Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 02/21/2015 at 20:53

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I dunno, it's not like they didn't screw up sales, marketing, distribution, and arguably cosmetics and even naming of it. I can see GM management saying "Oh FFS, if we give them a free hit and they can't even get THAT right, what the hell use are they?"

jkm7680 > TFen 02/21/2015 at 20:55

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That's not the first gen model. That's the 2005+ one.

jkm7680 > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies 02/21/2015 at 20:56

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The Toyotaness is high.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > jkm7680 02/21/2015 at 21:07

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When it comes to GM, that's not a bad thing. I'll take bland Toyota over mid-2000's GM any day. Source: Had to choose between taking over my parents Trailblazer or getting something else, got an early 90's Toyota. It's interior has held up better over 20 years, and has less squeaks and pops than the Trailblazer had when it was 5. And it's trans is still kicking at 180k miles, while the Trailblazer had shat 2 by 80k. I would take a Mk. IV Golf GTI 1.8 over a late Malaise GM(up to about 2011-12) for reliability and build quality.

TFen > jkm7680 02/21/2015 at 21:21

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The one pictured is a 2005.

That year they sold 27,000 in the states and 23,000 in Canada. That's 50,000.

Automakers need volume sellers like the Montana to offset cars like the GTO and G8 that enthusiasts beg and beg for and never actually buy after they get the green light.

Anyways, I'm done arguing with you - I'm starting to feel like this guy:

NotUnlessRoundIsFunny > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 02/21/2015 at 21:29

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Uh, yeah. That wouldn't be high on the list of Things That Killed Pontiac.

How about "GM Mismanagement" among others.

Also, thanks Facebook.

Tekamul > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 02/21/2015 at 21:52

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I would have said "badge engineering"

jkm7680 > TFen 02/21/2015 at 21:55

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Yeah, but the thing is only the government, taxis and rental car companies bought them. The rest have clunky transmissions or have been scrapped.

Denver Is Stuck In The 90s > NotUnlessRoundIsFunny 02/21/2015 at 22:59

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GM Mismanaged so bad that they mismanaged their mismanagement

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 02/21/2015 at 23:18

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I actually liked the GTO

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 02/22/2015 at 00:07

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Funny, I still see shittons of Vibes everywhere around here. Maybe because they were properly built cars (Matrix, baby!)

(Yes I understand what you are seeing and agree)

NotUnlessRoundIsFunny > Denver Is Stuck In The 90s 02/22/2015 at 01:35

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GM Mismanaged so bad that they mismanaged their mismanagement

Yeah, and they couldn't even get that right.

JasonStern911 > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 02/22/2015 at 05:09

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themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 02/22/2015 at 12:51

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There is a bit of truth to it, though the GTO was far from alone.

Nothing represented the sheer depravity that GM had at the time quite like walking all over the GTO name in a jumbled mess of an attempt to figure out how to do Pontiac. Buick, Chevrolet, and Cadillac had somehow transitioned most of their old nameplates successfully into the new millenium and they almost managed to pull this off with Pontiac. The Grand Am and Grand prix being FWD was NOT a problem. They sold quite well. But the GTO was a push too far because it wasn't a firebird. It just wasn't. Nor was it a GTO. The monaro was, in essence, Holden's camaro/firebird - a simple coupe with a big V8 that didn't suck in the turns. Had they flattened the front end a bit and made a call back to the original firebird, it could've worn that name. Without a doubt. There could've been a big marketing push around a tagline like "From the ashes, it is reborn!" and reference that they're stepping back to the first gen for inspiration.

The gto itself was always a little boaty too. So the G8? That could've worn the name, I think. The charger did just fine with 4 doors. Why couldn't the GTO? The G8 GT was CHEAP. 30k for a 360hp V8 and a 6-speed auto? Sure it was a bit sparse......that was the GTO way. But no, It was called the G8 because of course it was, it needs to line up with the G3, G5, and G6. G6 should've stuck with Grand Am. I'll say it. G5? Make a new name. Don't revive anything else. Same with the G3. But the monaro GTO and the G8 that came after highlighted everything that was wrong within GM's vision of Pontiac.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 02/22/2015 at 13:04

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Pontiac's death started way before the 2004 GTO. That started in the 1970's with DeLorean's departure. If anything, the 2004-06 GTO was very much in the spirit of the original GTO. Even if it came from Australia, it was still a proper muscle car, an everyday midsized coupe with a powerful V8, rwd and a manual transmission. The styling wasn't the issue, nor was it the marketing, it was the "purists" who couldn't pull their heads out of their asses and accept it for the car that it was, and that was a GTO.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 02/22/2015 at 13:52

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I disagree. I think Pontiac was getting back on track in the late 80s and 90s. They had some decent ideas - chevrolet got the value versions of models, buick got some luxury options and softer suspensions, and Pontiac got the bigger engines and "sporty" intentions. The Grand Prix Turbo, 6000 STE, Sunbird Turbo, etc.....Brand dilution chipped away at this image by giving the other groups their own copies of the pontiac template like all of the groups getting a supercharged 3800 W-body, but it could easily have given pontiac a solid identity in the 2000s